REP. FUA. That’s correct or to be sure, you will… 

REP. VILLANUEVA. Yes, distinguished colleague, Madam Speaker.   Meaning to say, from 2002, from 0.54% not even one percent, Madam Speaker, distinguished colleague,  of our total budget, now, it is down to a measly 0.29% of the national expenditure program or budget for 2009.   I wonder, Madam Speaker, distinguished colleague, the rational explanation about this budget.   I had been hearing a lot of remarks from the Department of Budget and Management, and I just wanted to know from the horse's mouth, especially coming from the Sponsor of the budget of the Commission on Audit, what happened, Madam Speaker, distinguished colleague? 

REP. FUA.   First, let us look at the reduction of the budget on its different categories.   On the personal services, there is a reduction of something like P600 million.   The basis for the disbursement or funds or allocation of funds  to the Commission on Audit, way back in 2002, is the number of officials and employees that the COA has, and that was between 11,000 to 15,000.   This was provided for in the budget of every year until 2009 budget.    The allocations for RLIP and Retirement Benefit Funds, were all in the personal services and the MOOE.   Today, this money is in the hands of the Department of Budget and Management as a lump sum appropriation to answer for the RLIP and the  Miscellaneous . . . 

REP. VILLANUEVA.  I think you are talking, Madam Speaker, distinguished colleague, about the MPBF, or Miscellaneous Personal Benefits Fund.  REP. FUA.    Yes, MPBF 

REP. VILLANUEVA.    I will go to that particular issue, Madam Speaker, distinguished colleague.  Let me just ask, how much was the proposed budget of  the Commission on Audit as submitted to the Department of Budget and Management?  

REP. FUA.   The proposed budget was  four billion. . . 

REP. VILLANUEVA.   Four billion. . . 

REP. FUA.      Four billion nine hundred million plus. 

REP. VILLANUEVA.  So, about 800 billion, distinguished  colleague, Madam Speaker?   Iyon po iyong nabawas? 

REP. FUA.    Yes, 800 million ang nabawas. 

REP. VILLANUEVA.   800 billion? REP. FUA.   800 million, million  only. 

REP. VILLANUEVA.  800 million, sorry Madam Speaker, distinguished colleague.   Madam Speaker, distinguished colleague, looking at the trend, awhile ago some of my colleagues raised the issue of graft and corruption, and being the Representative  of Party-List CIBAC or Citizens Battle Against Corruption, I find it weird for a government agency, like COA, to get  0.29% of the total budget vis-a-vis our national budget.   In fact, Madam Speaker, distinguished colleague, I also looked at the budget of the Office of the Ombudsman which is our national graft buster, and it is only 0.078% of the total budget.   And that is why, Madam Speaker, distinguished colleague, now I am not surprised why there are so many news, including international perception, as to how we are trying to address the problem of graft and corruption.    Would you agree with me, distinguished colleague, distinguished Sponsor, about this observation? 

REP. FUA.    Definitely not, because the budget is done through a regular process, using the wisdom of the people in the Department of Budget and Management and the people of the Commission on Audit.   The proposals would run counter to each other, so there is a rationalization process that is made between the Commission on Audit and the Department of Budget and Management. 

REP. VILLANUEVA.  Then let's go one by one. . .  

REP. VILLANUEVA.   Then let’s go one by one, Madam Speaker, distinguished colleague.  If you were saying about 800 million was cut out of the appropriate proposed budget by the Commission on Audit to the Department of Budget and Management, ano po iyong mga naapektuhan dito, doon sa na-slash na budget of P800 million? 

REP. FUA.  Walang maapektuhan, if you look at the budget of 2008 and 2009 comparatively, only one point something percent is being reduced in the budget of the COA and the budget of the COA is reduced… 

REP. VILLANUEVA.  But considering, excuse me, Madam Speaker, distinguished colleague, considering that our national budget increased, is that correct? 

REP. FUA.  Yes, but the proposal of COA was scrutinized by the Department of Budget and Management. When they computed on the basis of the number of employees and officials of the COA, it was found out that the allocations of fund and budget in 2008 was more than what should have been paid COA,  so there is a sort of a reduction in that aspect.  Besides, COA has signified to DBM that it will go into restructuring its organization, and that after that restructuring organization is submitted to the Department of Budget and Management which will include the plantilla already of the COA, then that is the time that they will intelligently find out how much budget could be given to COA.  But I am very sure that by next year, as soon as this reorganization structure is submitted and as soon as the new plantilla for government officials is submitted, there will be an increase of the budget of the Commission on Audit.  I am very sure of that, and if we will work together to give it and increase budget for 2009 because they are performing well in spite of its poor budget in their commission.

REP. VILLANUEVA.  Thank you, Madam Speaker, distinguished colleague, but unfortunately, we have to wait for another year for the budget of COA to be at par with other agencies of government, Madam Speaker, distinguished colleague. Distinguished colleague, as I was listening awhile ago to the interpellations by some of my colleagues in the Minority bloc, I could hardly remember the distinguished Sponsor answering the question as to what is the response of the Department of Budget and Management with regards to this 600 million.  Is the Gentleman sponsoring the budget  saying that this is just because of the MPBF and the RLIP, Madam Speaker, distinguished  colleague, because if you look at it, it’s only about 300 million that you are talking about? 

REP. FUA.  It is only 137 million. 

REP. VILLANUEVA.  One hundred thirty seven million? 

REP. FUA.  Yes. 

REP. VILLANUEVA.  Madam Speaker, distinguished colleague, I have here with me a copy of the Philippine Daily Inquirer about the response of the Department of Budget and Management.  It says here, “COA ignored other allocations such as Miscellaneous Personnel Benefits Fund or MPBF,… 

REP. FUA.  That is correct. 

REP. VILLANUEVA.  ...and the Retirement on Life Insurance Premiums RLIP.” In 2000, for example, Madam Speaker, distinguished colleague, COA received 300 million in employers’ share for the RLIP, again, it is Retirement on Life Insurance Premiums.  But, Madam Speaker, distinguished colleague, if you read the GAA, its appropriations that year is P3.622 billion.  The actual COA obligations for that year totaled 4.143 billion.  I wanted to know, Madam Speaker, distinguished colleague, of your comments about this.  Another thing, Madam Speaker, distinguished colleague, in 2008 with 300 million automatically appropriated for the RLIP, the commission’s total appropriation reached P4.549 billion, Madam Speaker, distinguished colleague, despite a GAA figure of P3.756 billion.  So, what is the explanation of that, distinguished colleague? 

REP. FUA.  Here is the explanation, from 2002, in compliance with the requirements of the constitutional provision that they establish their own rules and regulations and procedures in auditing system, they embarked on a program for a uniform audit system and that…  //fmcc(PO – Deputy Speaker Villarosa)           

REP. FUA.  ...and that uniform audit system must be automated and that automation is named eNGAS, Electronic National Government Auditing System.           

REP. VILLANUEVA.  Okay.           

REP. FUA.  The implementation  of this program has been on track from 2002 but it will end in 2008.  So that there is a need to re-spark the flame of enthusiasm on the part of the Department of Budget and Management  to relive or revive the program in order that continuation of the funds for that program will be given by the Department of Budget and Management.             

REP. VILLANUEVA.  Thank you.           

REP. FUA.  That is one, that is one explanation.  There are other explanations.           

REP. VILLANUEVA.  Yes, and I will take it at face value, Madam Speaker, distinguished colleague.            Distinguished colleague, you made mention about these filled and unfilled positions.  The Department  of Budget and Management also responded by saying that DBM has been using the 2002 structure for Personal Services as a basis for the requirement of 15,000 filled and unfilled positions in the COA.           

REP. FUA.  Yes.           

REP. VILLANUEVA.  State auditors, however, said their recent proposal, Madam Speaker, distinguished colleague, for Personal Services was only pegged  at 11,000 personnel for filled and unfilled positions.  Can you comment on this, distinguished Sponsor.           

REP. FUA.  Yes.  The 15,000 filled and unfilled positions was the original proposal to be allocated funds by the Commission on Audit.  But until 2008, only 11 positions have been filled.           

REP. VILLANUEVA.  11,000.           

REP. FUA.  11,000.  And on the basis of that number, corresponding allocations were made by the Department of Budget and Management.  Although COA said, we will increase our personnel, but the Department of Budget and Management requested COA to submit a new plantilla in order that they can increase the budget for Personal Services.           

REP. VILLANUEVA.  The bottom line, Madam Speaker, distinguished colleague, is that, would you agree with me that 11,000 is way down below the regular or, what I should say, kung papaano po sila makaka effectively work as members of the Commission on Audit?           

REP. FUA.  That is the proposal of COA since 2002 and they have never increased it.  And if you will look at the track record of COA,...           

REP. VILLANUEVA.  That is exactly my point.           

REP. FUA.  ...they are performing their duty effectively and efficiently.           

REP. VILLANUEVA.  Yes.  Madam Speaker, distinguished colleague, since 2006, the Department of Budget and Management stated that COA has been receiving P300 million in employer's share for the retirement of life insurance premiums which is automatically appropriated in the budget.  Is that correct, Your Honor?           

REP. FUA.  That is correct.  But the money is not in the possession of  the COA, it is in the Department of Budget and Management.           

REP. VILLANUEVA.  Exactly.  And that is why, Madam Speaker, distinguished colleague, it is also safe to say that it is wrong that the P600 or the  P800 million na ini-slash po ng Department of Budget and Management sa COA ay hindi lang po itong particular item na ito.  Is that correct, distinguished colleague?           

REP. FUA.  With respect to your statement that it is wrong, it is wrong from the beginning.           

REP. VILLANUEVA.  Exactly.               

REP. FUA.   Because COA is an independent body.  Their budget should not be under scrutiny  by any department of government in order that their independence cannot be destroyed.           

REP. VILLANUEVA.  I thank God that the distinguished Sponsor agrees with this Representation.           

Mr. Speaker, distinguished  colleague, let me go to another point.  I wanted to know pag tinignan po natin iyong trabaho ng COA sa pag-audit ng mga intelligence funds.  I think lahat po ng tao dito sa Pilipinas, si Juan dela Cruz, alam na alam niya na maraming naitatago sa intelligence funds.  Pwede po bang malaman, distinguished colleague, kung may mga nakitang anomalya ang COA sa mga intelligence funds natin?           

REP. FUA.  But from what I know by experience, the intelligence fund is not subjected to audit by the COA.  I do not know if presently they are doing the audit.           

REP. VILLANUEVA.  I am surprised, Madam Speaker, distinguished colleague.  I am sure that our auditors are somehow auditing the intelligence fund.  It cannot be an absolute right of any government official to just use their funds without accountability, Madam Speaker, distinguished colleague.            REP. FUA.  Distinguished Gentleman from the party-list, when I saythe COA cannot audit it, well if you consider the liquidation process done by the auditor…           

REP. VILLANUEVA.    Exactly, Madam Speaker.                       

REP. FUA.  …as an audit, then there is an audit.  But if it is only liquidated,  it is  not the same procedure as when you audit because you will be required to produce all receipts and documents  for the  disbursement.  But in this case,  it’s only  the liquidation that COA looks at.  And  I think, it is not, in the strict sense of the word,  audit.                      

REP. VILLANUEVA.  Okay, I will use the word “liquidate”, Madam Speaker, distinguished colleague.  Distinguished colleague, Madam Speaker,  may I ask how much is the intelligence fund of COA?             

REP. FUA.  As of 2002-2007, there  was but  less than P5,000,000 but   from    2002-2008,  zero.            

REP. VILLANUEVA.  Zero, Madam Speaker, distinguished colleague.  Zero.    Ang nag-o-audit  po o nagli-liquidate ng  mga intelligence funds ng  ating bansa,  walang intelligence funds.  I just can’t believe, Madam Speaker, distinguished colleague, why we are not allocating any funds for this  particular agency of government. Let me just point out, Madam Speaker, distinguished colleague,  what the Commission on Audit has accomplished as of today.                         

Sino nga po ba ang makakalimot doon sa fertilizer scam na  P728,000,000,  eh nawala na  parang bula?  Sino nga ba ang makakalimot, Madam Speaker, distinguished colleague,  doon   sa swine program scam ng  Quedancor na  P747,000,000  ay nawala noong 2004?  And just  to name  a few, Madam Speaker, distinguished colleague,  this year alone,  in  2007, nakita  po ng COA ‘yong GMA rice program scam,  P218.7 million; unimplemented farm-to-market roads ng Department  of Agriculture,  P389.92 million, Madam Speaker, distinguished colleague; rice seeds, fertilizer subsidies not received by farmers,  doubtful implementation and existence  of  23 projects in Antipolo Philanthropy  Foundation Incorporated, P146.16 million, Madam Speaker, distinguished colleague; various infra projects in the Department of Public Works  and Highways with defects and deficiencies, P48,000,000, Madam Speaker, distinguished colleague; projects not  within the work category prescribed by the  Road Board ng DPWH, P48,000,000, Madam Speaker, distinguished colleague; equipment procured out of the PDAF of various congressional Representatives as mentioned  awhile ago by our distinguished colleague,  P66,000,000, Madam Speaker, distinguished colleague;  overcharging of fees of  the Stradcom – Stradcom, due to erroneous  imposition of VAT as part of the  computer fees collected by Stradcom,  P22,000,000, Madam Speaker,  distinguished colleague.            

Hindi ho biro, Madam Speaker, distinguished colleague, ang mga nakikita na  anomalya ng  ating Commission on Audit.  But sad to say  again,  I would have to refer again to our budget right now, the proposed budget  of the Commission on Audit ngayon pong taon na ito  is P3.75 billion as to  P1.415 trillion  national budget, which is only  0.29%  of our national budget, Madam Speaker, distinguished colleague.            

Can you just imagine, distinguished colleague, Madam Speaker,  and Members of this  august Chamber, kung tataasan po natin ang  budget na ito;   kung mas lalong  magiging  efficient and effective ang ating  Commission on Audit, don’t you think, Madam Speaker, distinguished colleague, mas marami tayong anomalya na makikita.?   Of course, iba po iyong prosecution, iba po iyong  trabaho ng Ombudsman, ng DOJ, REP. FUA.    

Well, the Gentleman is asking if I can  imagine. If only  by imagination I would  ask   in return the  anomalies that you have just mentioned,  are   they borne out  by evidence or is there any investigative body  that  found out that such   anomalies  exist?  And if there is, then call the  COA.  The COA will   make its observation and if the observation…

REP. VILLANUEVA.  COA nga po ang nagbigay.  COA nga po ang Nakadiskubre, nito Madam Speaker, distinguished colleague.    And that is why…

REP. FUA.   That’s the finding of COA.  So, what works against the budget of COA?   When they found out that these anomalies existed in government in spite of the limited budget that they have ...

REP. VILLANUEVA.  That is why, Madam Speaker, distinguished colleague, this Representation is saying that if we support, give more financial support to the Commission on Audit, then we would be able to expose a lot of irregularities in this government, Madam Speaker, distinguished colleague.  I will not take long, Madam Speaker, distinguished colleague.  Let me just go to another point.  May I know how much is the budget of COA for adequate training of our auditors?  I am sure that the distinguished Sponsor would agree with this Representation that our auditors should know what they should audit.

REP. FUA.  This is part of the program on the uniform auditing system under the eNGAS.  They were asking COAns and non-COAns to undergo into a study on how to use the eNGAS.  But nevertheless, in spite the cutting of this, there is another budget.  Now, considering that there is no more eNGAS as of this moment, the asking amount of the COA was P38 million, but DBM granted only P13 million because DBM might have ...

REP. VILLANUEVA.  Because we don't want these auditors to improve their efficiency, Madam Speaker, distinguished colleague?

REP. FUA.  I do not agree.  Probably, the rationale of it is that there is no need for them to be trained if they are already auditors because they have all the trainings in the performance of their duties in all of their public lives as members of the COA.

REP. VILLANUEVA.  That is so disappointing, Madam Speaker, distinguished colleague.  I think we should also invest in this particular item about adequate training of our auditors.  Madam Speaker, distinguished colleague, the Gentleman sponsoring the budget also stated awhile ago that corruption exists because of abundance of money in our budget.  And that is why, I just couldn't imagine why we are giving a measly amount of budget for this department, for this Commission on Audit.  I somehow agree with the distinguished Gentleman that because of so much funding corruption exists, but I also don't agree that because of so much funding, ito po iyong tanging nagiging dahilan kung bakit may  korapsyon sa ating bayan.  And that is why the members of the Minority are moving to slash the budget of some government agencies and put it in the right place, for example, in the Commission on Audit.  Let me close, Madam Speaker, distinguished colleague, by—I know that this is not the proper time—but this Representation will move at the proper time for the additional budget of the Commission on Audit.  And I wanted to mention, Madam Speaker, distinguished colleague, that there are a lot of departments available na pupuwede nating pagkuhanan ng budget.  I don't believe na wala tayong makukuhanan ng budget, Madam Speaker, distinguished colleague.  Pag tiningnan lamang po natin, for example, the budget of the Department of Agrarian Reform, nakita noon sa committee, P600 million iyong kanilang travel expenses, travel allowance.  Sa MTRCB, na hindi natin makita kung ano iyong silbi pa, baka dapat bigyan na lang natin ng P1.00 budget, Madam Speaker, at dalhin natin sa Commission on Audit nang sa ganoon ay makita po natin iyon pong dapat nating makita nang sa ganoon ma-address po natin ang problema ng ating bayan, lalong-lalo na when we talk about the  issue of graft and corruption.  Of course, this is not the right time, Madam Speaker, distinguished colleague, but this Representation will push for it, whatever happens.  And I trust the Chairman of the Appropriations Committee's wisdom about this.  If we can allot augmentation or if we are allotting a big budget or a budget to the different agencies of the government na nakikita po natin na nasasayang lang, why don't we put it in the budget of the Commission on Audit?  Thank you very much, Madam Speaker, distinguished colleague. 

Thank you very much for your patience.  Thank you very much, sa lahat po ng nakinig.

REP. FUA.  Thank you,  Gentleman from CIBAC. If I am made to comment more on the augmentation of the budget, why don't we use our PDAF to augment the budget of the COA?   The intelligence  funds is only P5 million. I think, but that is only an inkling of what is to be done.  But, will we really do it, is another problem.  Okay.  Thank you, Gentleman